I was scanning the radio this morning and stumbled upon a local morning show that I don’t normally listen to. I was intrigued by the few seconds the scanner caught because it was a woman explaining why she didn’t change her last name when she married. This is one of my very favorite topics, so I listened. In the next segment a man called and asked the hosts to help him with an intervention. I got the idea that these interventions are meant to be fun or funny, but this one very quickly went very wrong.
The man, Ryan, said he is getting married in three weeks, but something has been bothering him for awhile. His fiance doesn’t want to change her last name. She told him a long time ago, but he was never sure how to bring up his problem with the idea, so it was never discussed. Hence the intervention. So they get Stacy, the fiancé, on the phone and break the news to her: Ryan feels very strongly that you take his last name.
She stayed very calm and explained that she felt very strongly about keeping her name. She said the kids could have his name, but she liked her identify—for professional and personal reasons—and was going to keep it. He kept repeating that he wanted them to “be a family,” as if having different lasts names renders you not so. Ryan said he’d be ok with Stacy hyphenating her name, but his last name must be incorporated somehow. Stacy didn’t want to do that, and never once did either of them suggest that he hyphenate as well or that he take her name in order to “be a family.”
Neither was budging, and while Stacy remained calm (though a little shocked and teary at her fiancé’s proclamation), Ryan started to get really upset, even hinting that he may not be able to move forward with her if she didn’t agree to change her name. At this point the radio hosts were befuddled and I think they were leaning toward ending the call and letting these two deal with the issue in a more private forum.
But suddenly Ryan said, “You have to make a choice Stacy. I feel strongly about this, and if you can’t change your mind, I have to call it off. Who cares about all the money we spent. It’s either me or your name.”
And then he hung up.
And everyone else was shocked and confused. They quickly took Stacy off the air after asking her if she was ok (she just cried and said she couldn’t believe this was happening). And they went to break shortly after.
Wow right? I mean, change your name or I won’t marry you? Holy shit. Even if she gave in and agreed to that, how could he accept it? She’d be marrying him under an ultimatum. She’d probably always regret her decision on some level, and maybe even come to resent him in some way. She’ll have made the choice not willingly, but out of desperation and resignation. Maybe eventually she’d get used to it and accept her decision, but it will always have been made under these circumstances. Is it worth that? I surely hope not.
Full disclosure: I plan to keep my last name. And I’ve always been very open and passionate about it, even writing about it several times on my personal blog.
I’ll write more about that decision and our plan as a couple later, but for now, what do you think of the above scenario? Should Stacy give in? Was Ryan crazy for posing the ultimatum? Should they even get married at this point? How might they work this out?
Also, what did you do or what do you plan to do if you marry?
shanandmike
Shannon
Mike
My thought is that it is sad that reached this far. I mean, he should have had the kahunas to discuss it sooner, not AFTER they were making wedding arrangements (at least, that’s how it sounded).
I agree that if she were to decide to take his name now, she would end up resentful and only doing it because of the ultimatum.
It doesn’t sound like either of them were willing to compromise or even consider the possibility of compromise. And that is something they should have figured out by now. It may be something they can get through, but they both need to decide if they want a name to stand between their love and their lives together.
wha…?! that is just plain crazy. I hope she doesn’t give in because that is beyond ridiculous.
I will admit that I changed my name when I got married. I didn’t really have a strong tie to my maiden name or have any sort of professional reputation in my maiden name.
However, I strongly support anyone that wants to keep their maiden name! It should be a person’s choice.
Ryan sounds like a huge douchebag and I think Stacy has dodged a bullet if the wedding has indeed been called off.
I see a couple of things wrong with Ryan’s insistence that his wife take his name. It smacks of insecurity and control issues. A man who insists his wife take his name is not looking at her as a person but as an extension of himself. And for someone to issue an ultimatum like Ryan did, me or your name, it seems he’s not really looking at marriage as the partnership it should be. There would be a definite hierarchy in their relationship with Ryan making sure he was the boss.
I never thought twice about taking my husband’s name. I’d probably take his name again if we could do it all over again. But if he had been a pig and insisted I give up my name, I probably would have fought him the whole way. I don’t respond well to ultimatums.
I heard part of this this morning and was patiently awaiting your call into the station!
Amber – I almost did! But I was driving to work and didn’t want to get stuck on hold. I had so much to say!
Do you think I represented the segment accurately?
I am a traditionalist and believe in taking the man’s last name.
However, if a woman doesn’t want to then that’s her business. If the woman wanted to keep her last name but saw how important it was to her fiance then she should hyphenate. I work with plenty of women who go by their maiden names professionally, but have hyphenated for purposes outside of business.
I personally think it is very selfish of her to NOT hyphenate when it is so important to the man. And it would also make sense to have the same last name as her children.
I also agree this should have been handled BEFORE wedding plans were in full swing, or even before the engagement.
Reading your post, I had the feeling the situation went to an ultimatum before I got to the end. Frankly, it’s not the 50′s anymore when women were expected to take on a man’s name and women have a choice in what they do. Ryan knew Stacy wanted to keep her name and if that is what Ryan is going to base his love on, he is not old enough to be married and Stacy deserves better.
Stacy would be resentful if she gave in and Ryan should have had this conversation with you a long time ago. To have this happen 3 weeks before the wedding is unforgiveable.
As for me, if/when I get married, I plan on keeping my name…mainly because the only male in my family is unmarried and childless and 20 years older than me. I’d like to keep the name alive as long as possible. If the man I married had a cool last name that didn’t sound weird with my first name, I’d take it with my last name un-hypenated.
Babs – what do you think about them both hyphenating though? If it’s so important to him that they share a name, shouldn’t it go both ways? Is it only her responsibility to compromise?
Isn’t it also selfish of him to expect her to make this change without be willing to do so himself?
My sister just got married, and they both felt strongly about their names, and also about sharing a name. So, voila! They both hyphenated!
I have very mixed feelings. I truly would like to have the same name as my hubby. But I have yet to change anything (and we’ve been married over a year) because I’m not comfortable with completely switching things – my last name is part of me. My husband was upset about it at first, but he’s learned to understand it. At the end of the day, he has said that he’s happy we’re together and wants me to do whatever I’m comfortable with. I would not want him to hyphenate his name, but feel this might be the way I’ll change it eventually. We’ve also discussed alternative last names to incorporate both of our last names but have yet to find something we like.
I think the situation with Stacy and Ryan says something about them as a couple. It’s very clear that he values tradition more than a modern view of things. This is difficult for them because she probably values her independence more than changing her last name – and I can completely relate. I can understand him being upset or disappointed, but to take it to an ultimatum is disprespectful – he is failing to value her independence and choices. That’s sad for them – and may show how different their values are. I am not sure I could go through with things if my hubby had given me an ultimatum!
I see your point, really I do. But like I said, I’m very traditional (read: old fashioned). I think a man hyphenating his last name is silly. No disrespect to you or anyone who has done such.
If she is so adamant about keeping her last name, then why get married? Why not just shack up for the rest of your lives. Then you are guaranteed to keep your last name without issue.
Question- if John Smith and Mary Adams get married, how do you introduce them? Mr. John Smith and Mrs. Mary Smith Adams? Does Mr. and Mrs. John Smith not work? Just wondering.
Babs – I don’t think not wanting to change your name means you shouldn’t get married. And I don’t think getting married means you must be willing to change it. I also don’t think it’s silly at all for a man to change or hyphenate his name. I guess we’re just coming from very different perspectives here, which is fine. As long as you don’t judge me for keeping my last name. Deal?
Also, when people introduce Mike and I, I’d expect them to say “Shannon [myname] and Mike [hisname].” Just like they do now. If people question whether we’re married based on that, they can ask.
Ryan’s a dickhead and I hope she dodges that bullet.
And what you can say is, “this is my husband, Giraffe Lastname.” And he can say, “this is my wife, Doahleigh LastName.” That’s what the dude and I do. I’ve found that when most people introduce us, they say, “this is Shannon and Mike.” So no one will know anything about you anyway.
The craziness is not for others to try to figure out your status, but when they start saying things that make perfect sense to them about their marriage to you now that you are married. For example, the dude and I were together for 9 years before we went the legal route. To us, nothing at all had changed. Then this woman said to us like a month or so after the wedding, “Don’t you feel like a team now?” Wha??? I just said, “I wouldn’t want to be on a team that would have me as a member.” Teammates! We should have got matching uniforms.
Maybe you should look into it…
Ryan sounds manipulative and weird. Name issue aside, I find it incredibly odd and somewhat abusive that he wanted to publicly humiliate his fiancee on the radio. I accept his right to feel strongly about the issue, but not to treat Stacy so disrespectfully. I hope they don’t end up going through with the wedding.
I’m gonna kinda agree with Kt in her second paragraph.
I think there were other issues simmering below the surface. And while it’s super unfortunate, I think maybe getting the ultimatum could be a blessing in disguise. Maybe their values are truly too different, and it’s better to find that out sooner than later.
And really, if someone wanted to leave the love of their life over them wanting to keep their own name? I can’t wrap my mind around that.
Agreed. It was really shocking and sad to hear happen. There was definitely something going on there.
Sounds to me like Ryan was just looking for a way out. Calling a radio station to do the dirty work for him?!! She’s better off finding out he’s a coward before the wedding.
I agree with Amy P. Something else is going on there. What is up with this guy??
[...] 12, 2009 by Shannon Ok, we’re getting off our soap boxes now. By now you know where we stand on the last name issue: we’re both keeping ours, [...]
I’m a little late in my response here, but apparently they are not meant to be a couple. I agree with the person who said, maybe this is a blessing in disguise. I’m not going to say I think she should change her name or that he should “let” her keep her name. I think in any relationship if they disagree with this issue, and neither is willing to compromise, then how are they going to deal with more serious issues like whether they think spanking is okay for their children, or how they are going to spend their money. If they are not willing to compromise about this, then they won’t be able to compromise about other things. I think if Kevin had disagreed with me about the last name, which we would if I had wanted to keep my last name, I believe that if it meant a lot to me, he would have been okay with it. He wouldn’t like it, but he’d know there are more important issues. On the tip side, I know Kevin feels strongly about me taking his last name for many reasons. He’s the last boy in his line of “smiths” and wants to carry on the family name, so even if I had wanted to keep my last name, I think I would let our children take his last name. Or I might use my last name for some reasons, and his last name for other areas of my life.
Mike was right in saying, families are much more complicated than last names, but that being said, to some people it is a symbol of the unity just as wedding bands are symbols of that unity. What matters most is that people are willing to compromise regardless of their feelings. If someone is going to give an ultimatum on such inconsequential issues as what your last name what else are they going to be controlling in. Because realistically, “”What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.”
[...] by Shannon For those of you interested in more of the great last name debate, I cross-posted the Last Name Ultimatum at the Feministing Community site, and it generated some interesting [...]
I hope she fucking runs.
[...] and I have already shared our thoughts on last names and our plan as a couple here and [...]
Hi Shannon. I kept my own name when I married back in 1975. It’s hard to believe it is still as much of an issue as it was back then.
My ex was hesitant about it at first but then he accepted the idea. We lived first in the northeast, then in the midwest for the first two years. To my knowledge we didn’t have any problems with our decision.
When we moved to the south things started getting more tense. My husband spent a lot of time in bars where the southern “gentlemen” with whom he was spending time said things like “I wouldn’t let MY wife keep her name.” and other complimentay things about any husband who would go along with such a stupid idea. That started bothering my ex greatly as to how he was perceived by his “friends” at the bars.
I blogged on this subject for two days. If you are interested, you can find my story on my blog site.
September 1, 2009…7:52 AM
What’s in a name? I found out
September 2, 2009…7:37 AM
Women’s Names, Traditions, and Statistics Oh My!
Just thought you might be interested. Somebody who visited your site somehow found mine also. Best wishes as to your decision. I’m finding the idea is a little more accepted than when I did it but you will run into a few like the “ultimatum guy” who may desire to express his opinion about branding his wife. Attic Annie
atticannie.wordpress.com
I don’t think that when anyone, male or female, takes the name of their spouse in marriage, they are being “branded”. There are cultural customs that determine lines of ancestry, and whether a custom is matrilineal or patrilineal, in neither case is anyone “branded.”